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"Smoking bans" in public places, how do you feel
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"Smoking bans" in public places, how do you feel

Smoking bans in restaurants, bars, etc
Fuk dem, unless it's trees then I'm all for it
14%
 14%  [ 3 ]
I'on curr bout dem
14%
 14%  [ 3 ]
The business owners choice
52%
 52%  [ 11 ]
Only if I'm allowed to smoke with Bobbby Brown should it be legal
19%
 19%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 21

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Kalibane



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That is so extreme it's ridiculous. Emergency workers put themselves at much greater risk everyday than second hand smoke. And you act as if while a heart attack victim is flopping around on the floor that 15 people are going to be standing around watching him clutch his chest and chain smoking.


Last edited by Kalibane on Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:02 pm View user's profile Find all posts by Kalibane Send private message
MzPhatBooty



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Post Reply with quote
[quote="Kalibane"]That is so extreme it's ridiculous. Emergency workers put themselves at much greater risks everyday than second hand smoke. [b]And you act as if while a heart attack victim is flopping around on the floor that 15 people are going to be standing around watching him clutch his chest and chain smoking.[/b][/quote]

CTFU!! Laughing
Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:03 pm View user's profile Find all posts by MzPhatBooty Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
BobbyDigital



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[quote="Kalibane"]Now you're back peddling Chez. You said if a smoking referendum appeared on the ballot that you would cast your vote to ban it. You didn't merely state that you don't patronize smoking establishments. In addition the "It doesn't matter because it doesn't affect me" philosophy is extremly short sighted. You need to look at the big picture.[/quote]

[b]Yeah I said that. And still say it. If there was a referendum to ban smoking in private places and restaurants I'd vote for it. Maybe it's wrong, but when I vote at the ballots I vote for which ever option I want or favors me.

But maybe my philosophy is different from yours. I see it more on a case by case or issue by issue level.[/b]
Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:03 pm View user's profile Find all posts by BobbyDigital Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Celestial



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ha ha.

I'm just making a point, sweetness.

And while it's true that emergency workers put themselves in difficult and dangerous situations every day, what about everyone else on the list?
Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:04 pm View user's profile Find all posts by Celestial Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
BobbyDigital



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[quote="Marz"]I didn't see this..

, then that should have been the title of the thread

So what you're saying Chez is that the content or the discussion of the thread doesn't matter, only the title is of importance right??

Rather than say "my personal preference is yadda yadda". You needed me to hand hold you to the pond of the real issue?[/quote]

[b]Well... all you had to do was state the real issue from the beginning. Or better yet don't say I'm bypassing the point of the thread when you or someone else decide to take the topic in another direction.[/b][/b]
Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:06 pm View user's profile Find all posts by BobbyDigital Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Marz



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I don't personally think I should have to stay home because y'all want to kill yourselves, but that has nothing to do with this really

The "YALL" you speak of, who are you referring to and exactly what are you implying??

So, if Smoker A has a heart attack in a restaurant where the owner has decided that smoking is allowed do you really want to take the "if you don't like smoke don't go there attitude"? Well, you flop around like a fish while the dispatcher finds a ambulance who doesn't mind second hand smoke

Show me one case where a heart attack was solely attributed by second hand smoke in an establishment WHERE the patron KNOWINGLY was aware that this was a smoking establishment and still attended.

If a chemist or air pollution expert seriously were to come here and show you charts comparing AIR quality levels, some of you would STILL believe what you'd want to believe.

Jsut as you've been fed propoganda from one side, I showed another side which I'm certain most of you didn't click to examine. (have the time to click to type a comment in the thread but not read it. Gotcha/Check) I didn't furnish that point to side with the effects of second hand smoke but more to illustrate that thigns can be SKEWED either way with expert opinions on both sides.

Celestial I thnk your'e forgetting again these aren't public buildings but private buildings. So if you're for this then you'll have no problem in the govt dictating the lighting in your home, even though those same light bulbs are legal. What you can view in your own home thats legal and other things.

You all act as if it's a medical necessity that you MUST dine out or consume alcoholic beverages in a smoke free environement which is funny in itself when you consider the contrast or the effects of both.

In case you guys aren't familiar with capitalism (and I'm sure you are) watch this have the opposite effect and create another opportunity for someone who'll have no problem in catering to smokers.
Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:07 pm View user's profile Find all posts by Marz Send private message Send e-mail
bodom



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[quote="bb74"][quote="delta84"]GA is trying to pass a law that will place the driver of a car in jail if seen smoking with a child in the car and the windows not open/down. Whatcha think about that law?[/quote]

That is absolutely outrageous and there is no way in hell anybody with good sense would vote for that. The government has NO RIGHT to tell somebody what they can do in or on their own property! Mad[/quote]
WHAT? we ALREADY have NUMEROUS laws that tell us what we can and can't do in our own cars!!

there are a LOT of examples!

1. if i'm in my OWN CAR, i MUST wear a seat belt, since it's the law. either i "click it" or "ticket".

2. if i'm in my OWN CAR with my OWN CHILD under the age of 5, i MUST purchase a car seat and i MUST place her in that car seat when the car is in operation.

3. some states are trying to pass laws where if i'm in my OWN CAR with my OWN CHILD and if i'm caught leaving the car with the child in it (windows up OR down, or with older children in the car), then i must face a severe fine and possible jail time for neglect.

4. government has also banned many "add-ons" to cars: too much tint, whistle tips, neon ground effects, etc.

5. many states are passing laws making it ILLEGAL for me to operate MY OWN CELL PHONE in MY OWN CAR.

there are MANY more examples....




my point is that the government already tells us what we can do on our own property with our own children, so if i law like this WERE TO BE BROUGHT UP, not only would it be considered NOT outrageous, but it in fact has a good chance of PASSING. the car seat laws have already passed, which sets this one up for passing.

--
bodom
Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:09 pm View user's profile Find all posts by bodom Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger ICQ Number
BobbyDigital



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[quote="ChezCouvier"]
[b]Maybe it's wrong, but when I vote at the ballots I vote for which ever option I want or favors me.[/b][/quote]

[b]I lied... that's not necessarily true.[/b][/b]
Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:11 pm View user's profile Find all posts by BobbyDigital Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Marz



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Post Reply with quote
4. government has also banned many "add-ons" to cars: too much tint, whistle tips, neon ground effects, etc.

http://lisupras.com/wooo.html

WHOO WHOO Smile
Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:13 pm View user's profile Find all posts by Marz Send private message Send e-mail
Jocie
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[quote]2. if i'm in my OWN CAR with my OWN CHILD under the age of 5, i MUST purchase a car seat and i MUST place her in that car seat when the car is in operation.

3. some states are trying to pass laws where if i'm in my OWN CAR with my OWN CHILD and if i'm caught leaving the car with the child in it (windows up OR down, or with older children in the car), then i must face a severe fine and possible jail time for neglect. [/quote]

Those are very good laws and I agree whole heartily for them.
Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:14 pm View user's profile Find all posts by Jocie Send private message
Celestial



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Post Reply with quote
Marz:

I was not implying that second hand smoke causes heart attacks, SHEESH!

I was using something I like to call an EX-AM-PLE. What I said, specifically, was that if you're going to take a "if you don't like it, don't go there" attitude, let's look at this scenario of a person having a heart attack (or if you like choking on a chicken bone and for the record I'm not implying that second hand smoke makes you choke on chicken bones) and an EMT not wanting to be in a smokey environment. In other words, not everyone has a CHOICE of entering that establishment and his or her health should not be marred because you decide you want to smoke.

Also, Marz, there are a multitude of issues in the world from air pollution to germs on soda cans that a person can be exposed to, but AGAIN that is not the topic of this thread so I don't entirely understand how the conversation keeps getting pulled in that direction.

And to answer your first question, the "y'all" referred to smokers.
Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:14 pm View user's profile Find all posts by Celestial Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
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[b][color=darkblue]I am allergic to cigarette smoke and I have asthma...on top of that I have a knack for getting someone else's ash in my eyes as I'm minding my own business walking down the street. I hate cigarette smoke with unbridled passion and truly believe that cigarette smoking is something poor people and euro trash do.

Laughing

But I'd never vote for a law banning it ANY WHERE, except hospitals (you shouldn't be able to light up in intensive care or the neo natal ward).

If people wanna age themselves prematurely, be all funky and look stupid cuz they spend too much money on something that doesn't benefit them in any way, then that's on them.

I hate peepo who smoke though. You all are stupid. You don't even get a buzz off da isht.[/color][/b]
Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:15 pm Find all posts by Anonymous
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[quote]I don't understand the poll choices so I can't vote[/quote]

Laughing [b][color=darkblue]I thought it was just me. [/color][/b] Laughing
Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:18 pm Find all posts by Anonymous
Marz



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Post Reply with quote
To think you're an educator too. I wouldhave thought the polling choices (which were obviously tongue and cheek) would have been in Amharic.

Next time I'll make sure the L7 translations take effect in polling options also.
Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:20 pm View user's profile Find all posts by Marz Send private message Send e-mail
Celestial



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It just didn't make any sense.

The first one is "fuk dem" and "I'm all for it" in the same choice. I didn't get what "fuck dem" was in reference to. And I didn't know what "trees" meant. (I do now, though.)

And I think it's BECAUSE she's an educator that she didn't get it.
Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:26 pm View user's profile Find all posts by Celestial Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
bodom



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[quote="ChezCouvier"][b]Yeah I said that. And still say it. If there was a referendum to ban smoking in private places and restaurants I'd vote for it. Maybe it's wrong, but when I vote at the ballots I vote for which ever option I want or favors me.

But maybe my philosophy is different from yours. I see it more on a case by case or issue by issue level.[/b][/quote]
chez, the problem people are having with you isn't because you would vote for smoking bans, but rather your FLIP FLOP position on the subject. [b]if you would have simply said in the beginning that "i support smoking bans because of _______", then NONE of this criticism would have happened.[/b]




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HERE IS YOUR ORIGINAL POST:

[quote="ChezCouvier"][color=red]It's the business/restaurant owner's choice to allow it in their place of business and the patrons's choice as to whether they'll spend their money there.[/color][/quote]
your first paragraph CLEARLY STATES that you feel it's the business owner's choice. that's the position you originally took.

[quote="ChezCouvier"][color=red]Seems like my luck always seat me and my family at the border line where non-smoking and smoking meets and when it does, either I'll asked to be moved to another area of the restaurant or leave.[/color][/quote]
bad luck happens, but in this instance, you said you would asked to be moved. you seem to have no problems with a smoking section and a non-smoking section.

[quote="ChezCouvier"][color=red]But to be honest, if a smoking ban was brought up to be voted on, I know that I would vote in favor of it. I really don't care about the problems smokers have in finding locations to smoke.[/color][/quote]
[b]HERE IS WHERE YOU FLIP FLOP.[/b] you go straight from "it's the business owner's choice" to "i'd rather the government intervene and ban smoking altogether in these businesses". it's not wrong to not give a shit about smokers, but if you don't give a shit, then STATE THAT in the beginning and quit hedging the damn fence. THAT is why kali GRILLED YOU.

[quote="ChezCouvier"][color=red]Can't wait til winter... just watching them freeze their azzes off outside the office at work for a drag is hilarious to me.[/color][/quote]
it's funny to me as well.

but if you would have simply picked your side and argued on it, then you wouldn't be in the hot seat now.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






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bodom
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bb74



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Post Reply with quote
[quote="ChezCouvier"][quote="Kalibane"]Now you're back peddling Chez. You said if a smoking referendum appeared on the ballot that you would cast your vote to ban it. You didn't merely state that you don't patronize smoking establishments. In addition the "It doesn't matter because it doesn't affect me" philosophy is extremly short sighted. You need to look at the big picture.[/quote]

[b]Yeah I said that. And still say it. If there was a referendum to ban smoking in private places and restaurants I'd vote for it. Maybe it's wrong, but when I vote at the ballots I vote for which ever option I want or favors me.

But maybe my philosophy is different from yours. I see it more on a case by case or issue by issue level.[/b][/quote]

Chez, attacks on civil liberties always start on a case by case basis - today it's smoking in a public place. Tomorrow, who knows what it will be.

Bodom, I think you knew what I meant by that comment. Confused
Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:27 pm View user's profile Find all posts by bb74 Send private message
BobbyDigital



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[quote="Marz"]Just as you've been fed propoganda from one side, I showed another side which I'm certain most of you didn't click to examine. (have the time to click to type a comment in the thread but not read it. Gotcha/Check) I didn't furnish that point to side with the effects of second hand smoke but more to illustrate that thigns can be SKEWED either way with expert opinions on both sides.[/quote]

[b]**Raising hand**

I did click the link and examined it. And you made your point. There are studies (like this one done on Californians) that show that the effects of second hand smoke isn't as major as other experts claim.

However...

Pops always told me to look at the source better yet, look for the white man with the money. And Mr. Enstrom (the one that conducted this research) and Mr. Kabat (assumed side kick) had to get money to conduct this research (which lasted close to 40 years) from somewhere....

.... who funded it? Oh my goodness, the funds to conduct this study originated from the infamous tobacco industry (page 9).

Rather interesting.[/b]
Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:27 pm View user's profile Find all posts by BobbyDigital Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Kalibane



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You are the one missing the point of this thread though Chez... The issue with smoking bans is whether gov'ts have the right to dictate the clientele you cater to. I suspect (and hope) that you are being intentionally obtuse in this regard.

And how far are you willing to take it Chez? Should people not be allowed to smoke in their houses if they live in a building with other people? Should people with kids not be allowed to smoke? Should smoking just be banned period because it's harmful? If smoking should be banned then shouldn't Alcohol since drunk drivers take so many lives every year?

As for the other folks Celestial... I would reckon that Dishwashers, cooks/chefs have about as much contact with second hand smoke as I do on a daily basis. They are secluded and seperated from the eating areas.... Same thing with Delivery men and Postal workers. Deliveries almost infallably comin through a seperate rear entrance and Postal workers are probably exposed to more smoke from the people who congregate outside office buildings during their breaks. The people you have a small point with are the waitresses, bartenders and busboys... Even the Hostesses do not spend any significant time inside the eating areas.

Now there are like 1,000,000 restaurants in every city... getting a job waiting or busing tables is not that hard. At the very worst you can lie, say you're allergic to cigarette smoke and get the manager to keep you in the non-smoking area. Bartenders would have the most exposure... Like any other job though you need to take into account the job hazards. And if the hazards out weigh the rewards then you should find a new occupation or a smoke free establishment...

People say this is about not being forced ... but in order for them to not be force they are forcing other people. The people are opening up their restaurants and bars to make money... they are the ones investing in it and putting their livelihoods on the line (not you) and they should be able to market and cater to the public in the way in which they believe will make them the most money. And when you open a business you can ban smoking all you want.
Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:29 pm View user's profile Find all posts by Kalibane Send private message
Horse



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I'm old enough to remember when they allowed smoking inside work areas..You could actually smoke at your desk.

Now that was tough because you had to be at work and on top of that be forced to breath in the smoke.

Should it banned...?? Probably not. It bothers my eyes, and irritates my nose and throat but banning it is a little severe.
Next they will banning people from farting in public places.

On a personal level........
I won't buy a used car if I know the previous owner smoked in the car.
I won't rent a hotel room if it has the slightest scent of a cigarette .

So, you can do your own personal ban.
Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:29 pm View user's profile Find all posts by Horse Send private message
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