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Why I'm Not A Republican
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Omega Phoenix



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Post Why I'm Not A Republican Reply with quote
In the G.E. thread, I said this:
[quote]What was the Black Republican response to Patrick Buchanan's screed about Black folks not being grateful enough?

How are Black Republicans responding to Obama being labeled as 'elite' (and now blatantly labeled 'uppity'), when he is an almost perfect model of what Black Conservatism should be? If Obama were a Republican, he would be heralded as the standard-bearer for Black Republicans because of his education, family life, church upbringing (brouhaha about Wright notwithstanding), and coming up to where he is without sounding like an Affirmative Action poster child.

Black Republican responses to White Republican slights/slurs/insults seem to be "Well yeah, Strom Thurmond has a point...", to the point where they are becoming Pet Negro Apologists, or sellouts (see: Connerly, Wardell).[/quote]

I'll used these comments as a launchpad for this thread.

I'm still by and large a Democrat, but my support for the Democratic Party has changed due to my growth and understanding of politics. I used to believe the typical partisan mantra that Republicans = evil and Democrats = good, but as I started paying attention, I began to see some reprehensible Democrats and some Republicans who deserve my support. I DON'T buy into the line that the Republican Party that fought against racism in the dawn of the Civil Rights Movement is the same today, and the same can be said for the Democrats (most of the change came about [I believe] with the implementation of the Southern Strategy).

Also, there seems to be a belief that if you're a Black Democrat, you're automatically a mindless automaton who is all too happy to sit at the feet of Democrats while they take advantage of you, and real intelligence and analysis would steer you towards the Republican Party. That is a myth. I think MHC said it best, when he said something along the lines of being able to vote INDEPENDENTLY while still voting for a Democratic candidate.

During the Republican Convention, much has been made about the lack of diversity within this party. I think the majority of it is the Republicans' own fault. They have been horrible at reaching out to Black voters without sounding like a condescending parent trying to tell a child that they should "know better." The same can be said for Democrats, who have taken the Black vote for granted for years. But ask Hillary and Bill what happens when people en masse get their "Oh no THEY DIDN'T" wake-up call. Probably the best thing to happen to Black people who support the Democratic Party is the Obama ticket, one of the reasons being that it finally put the "First Black President" mythos surrounding Bill Clinton to bed.

But this isn't about the Dems. This is about why I'm not a Republican.

As I mentioned earlier, Pat Buchanan's screed that Black people should be grateful for all of the opportunities afforded to them by good white Americans went unchecked from the Black Republicans. I didn't hear from Michael Steele, Condeleeza Rice, Colin Powell, or any prominent Black Republican. I didn't hear from the Usual Suspect boot-licking toadies like Jesse Lee Peterson and Wardell Connerly as well.

The Black Republicans want to increase their membership, but they were silent during the infamous Willie Horton ads. They seemed to be in lockstep with police brutality disguised as law enforcement in the wake of horrific cases like Amidou Diallo, Patrick Dorismund, and Abner Louima (you can always count on a Black Republican pundit to tow the party line in the talking head pundits, giving bad cops a pass, thus legitimizing this criminal behavior in the eyes of white America).

On a local level, the Republican Party ran ads against Harold Washington, saying that the city voters should vote for Bernard Upton "...before it's too late." I've read accounts (especially here on AO) about Jesse Helms' notorious ads against his Black Democratic opponent.

From the top down, the Republican view on Black America seems to be that racism is over, and if you're being mistreated because of your race, you're a whiny law-breaker looking to make excuses for your own shortcomings. They may celebrate some Black achievements indirectly (i.e. the appointments of both Colin Powell and Dr. Rice to high-level cabinet positions), but they seem to have no problems reminding us of where "our place is."

Barack Obama is "elite (read: uppity)."

Michelle Obama is "angry and militant, and hates America."

It seems to me that if the Black Republicans want more of us under their big tent, then those in prominent positions should make a better effort to see that our inclusion won't just be to get crumbs from the big table. It would also help to see them actually take a stand on some patently racist issues, without blaming people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton for being "troublemakers" for raising these issues.

And finally, the Democratic Party has Jesse Jackson. The Republicans have Ann Coulter. The Democrats have Al Sharpton. The Republicans have Patrick Buchanan. The Democrats have Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, and Roland Martin. The Republicans have Sean Hannity, John Gibson, Bill Kristol, and Bill O'Reilly. The Democrats have Kathleen Sebelius and Bill Richardson. The Republicans have Rudy Guiliani.

While I continue to look at the Democratic Party under a more intense microscope, from the top down, I certainly don't see a reason to be Republican. Republicans seem to want to smack us in the mouth, and then ask them to thank us that they didn't use brass knuckles this time around.

[i]edited to add:[/i]

Their blatant hypocrisy on all things Palin (especially their comments about Bristol and her 'choice' and their glaring lack of accountability leveled at the Palin parents) didn't help matters, either. No need to reiterate why this obvious double-standard is so, well, obvious.
Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:58 pm View user's profile Find all posts by Omega Phoenix Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Marz



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[i]Also, there seems to be a belief that if you're a Black Democrat, you're automatically a mindless automaton who is all too happy to sit at the feet of Democrats while they take advantage of you, and real intelligence and analysis would steer you towards the Republican Party. [/i]

I still see that and believe that. Is that an article or did you write that??

I hate the fact that people think it's an either/or type of thing. Neither party as a whole gives a damn about the middle class and below frankly save for using it when it's convenient for their respective platforms. All Republicans aren't "rich" which makes me laugh when you hear "its the rich white man's party". Tell that to Joe in middle of america Average that earns less than 40K but has voted republican since Nixon.

I still think personally Black people shouldn't (how many times have I said this) [b]give [/b]their votes to any party as most of us typically do. But create a strong voting block of sorts where "we" have a platform that both parties MUST campaign for to earn the vote. When I say "we" don't get your thongs all messed up. I know, "WE" all don't have the same values and ideals it's a euphemism. The point is when you look at seniors for example (who all have different life experiences, lifestyles, etc) they're probably one if not they strongest voting block there is. You won't win FLA for example without carrying their vote.

Typically their platform comes to issues their concerned about (retirement, social security, etc). So the various candidates campaign HARD for those votes.

For "us", schit, "send them to the Mount Calvary St Martin DePorres Penticosal Mother of Mary Phoenix church and that'll satisfy those fan wavers". Sadly, "it does".

The threads premise gives this YOUR take is the only take there is and that if a Black person is a Republican as I said before, they're some misguided "Tom" that has no clue whatsoever. How many things do you follow that you don't totally believe in?? Probably a lot. For some reason when it comes to politics people have this notion, "it's ALL or nothing" when thats far from the case. Hell, theres no such thing as the perfect house (Payment, neighborhood, school, neighbors, access to highways not traffic filled, proximity to relatives, etc) something has to give. Thats how I wish some people would see politics.

What I don't get on both side are the "kool aid" sippers that actually believe the things these guys say that they're going to do. As if any president is just going to deliberately say, "ah, we don't want people to have jobs this term". How ridiculous can you be. What people don't understand is that the marketplace dictates more things than anything. Sure there are certain policies that could assist with those market swings but bottom line, you have to look at the playing field.

Dumb niggers favorite "kneegrow" president Clinton, had he remained in office (and I recall during the time people were saying, "why is there a limit on presidential terms?" types of discussion ensuing) actually should know that the economy was headed for an inevitable collapse.
Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:15 pm View user's profile Find all posts by Marz Send private message Send e-mail
Omega Phoenix



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[quote="Marz"][i]Also, there seems to be a belief that if you're a Black Democrat, you're automatically a mindless automaton who is all too happy to sit at the feet of Democrats while they take advantage of you, and real intelligence and analysis would steer you towards the Republican Party. [/i]

I still see that and believe that. Is that an article or did you write that??[/quote]

I wrote that.

[quote]I hate the fact that people think it's an either/or type of thing. Neither party as a whole gives a damn about the middle class and below frankly save for using it when it's convenient for their respective platforms. All Republicans aren't "rich" which makes me laugh when you hear "its the rich white man's party". Tell that to Joe in middle of america Average that earns less than 40K but has voted republican since Nixon.[/quote]

I agree that all Republicans aren't "rich." The past Presidential election cycles demonstrated that the Republicans pandered more to their poor, stupid low information voter base than the wealthy of their group.

[quote]I still think personally Black people shouldn't (how many times have I said this) [b]give [/b]their votes to any party as most of us typically do. But create a strong voting block of sorts where "we" have a platform that both parties MUST campaign for to earn the vote. When I say "we" don't get your thongs all messed up. I know, "WE" all don't have the same values and ideals it's a euphemism. The point is when you look at seniors for example (who all have different life experiences, lifestyles, etc) they're probably one if not they strongest voting block there is. You won't win FLA for example without carrying their vote.

Typically their platform comes to issues their concerned about (retirement, social security, etc). So the various candidates campaign HARD for those votes.[/quote]

The Hispanics do a good job of this... so much so, that Republicans have to backtrack on their strict anti-immigration stance so as not to offend them.

[quote]For "us", schit, "send them to the Mount Calvary St Martin DePorres Penticosal Mother of Mary Phoenix church and that'll satisfy those fan wavers". Sadly, "it does".[/quote]

Yep... it does... and both the Republicans and the Dems know how to play to this audience. I keep hoping that one of these days, folks will wise up...

[quote]The threads premise gives this YOUR take is the only take there is and that if a Black person is a Republican as I said before, they're some misguided "Tom" that has no clue whatsoever. How many things do you follow that you don't totally believe in?? Probably a lot. For some reason when it comes to politics people have this notion, "it's ALL or nothing" when thats far from the case. Hell, theres no such thing as the perfect house (Payment, neighborhood, school, neighbors, access to highways not traffic filled, proximity to relatives, etc) something has to give. Thats how I wish some people would see politics. [/quote]

Actually, this thread is more about my feelings regarding myself and the Republican Party's so-called "outreach" to Black people. I never said that if anyone is a Republican that they'd automatically be labeled a "Tom" or a "sell-out." BUT, there ARE some who fit the bill, and who seem more than happy to demonstrate their undying loyalty to the Republicans, even at the expense of what remains of their dignity. For example, I DON'T believe that Colin Powell and Condeleeza Rice fall under this description. I don't know if Michael Steele fits the description, as I haven't seen much of him in my neck of the woods. But the people like Jesse Lee Peterson and, to an extent Juan Williams? You bet'cha I'm referring to them.

My point is that for all of its faults, the Democratic Party is doing a better job than the Republicans of reaching out to Black people. By no means are they perfect, but they do a heck of a lot better at this than the Repubs.

[quote]What I don't get on both side are the "kool aid" sippers that actually believe the things these guys say that they're going to do. As if any president is just going to deliberately say, "ah, we don't want people to have jobs this term". How ridiculous can you be. What people don't understand is that the marketplace dictates more things than anything. Sure there are certain policies that could assist with those market swings but bottom line, you have to look at the playing field.

Dumb niggers favorite "kneegrow" president Clinton, had he remained in office (and I recall during the time people were saying, "why is there a limit on presidential terms?" types of discussion ensuing) actually should know that the economy was headed for an inevitable collapse.[/quote]

That's why I was talking about more than just the Presidential election. On a local level, the Democratic Party has been doing a better job of addressing my needs as a voter than the Republicans. More often than not, the Republican response to issues that concern me is "oh well, sucks to be you... get a job, ya bum."
Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:56 pm View user's profile Find all posts by Omega Phoenix Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
faceman68



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Great post, PM.
Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:05 pm View user's profile Find all posts by faceman68 Send private message Send e-mail
pacco96



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Until I make $200k / year then I might be a Republican criticizing YOU people. Until then I'll stay independent.
Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:39 pm View user's profile Find all posts by pacco96 Send private message
BobbyDigital



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Post Re: Why I'm Not A Republican Reply with quote
[quote="Omega Phoenix"]Probably the best thing to happen to Black people who support the Democratic Party is the Obama ticket, one of the reasons being that it finally put the "First Black President" mythos surrounding Bill Clinton to bed.[/quote]

[b]Also it seems like his candidacy has raise the level of awareness and interest in politics among black people in general that wasn't there before.[/b]

[quote]From the top down, the Republican view on Black America seems to be that racism is over, and if you're being mistreated because of your race, you're a whiny law-breaker looking to make excuses for your own shortcomings. They may celebrate some Black achievements indirectly (i.e. the appointments of both Colin Powell and Dr. Rice to high-level cabinet positions), but they seem to have no problems reminding us of where "our place is."

It seems to me that if the Black Republicans want more of us under their big tent, then those in prominent positions should make a better effort to see that our inclusion won't just be to get crumbs from the big table. It would also help to see them actually take a stand on some patently racist issues, without blaming people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton for being "troublemakers" for raising these issues.[/quote]

[b]I think the Republican party don't reach out to us in general because we don't consistently excercise our power (voting). In the past two election cycles, I heard stats of the margin of victory for Bush over Gore and Bush over Kerry compared to the number of unregistered black voters in those states. And it was shocking how the number of unregistered black voters was greater than the margin of victory in those swing states.

So... maybe they don't reach out because there isn't a return in their investment at the election booth. I mean, if they can beat the Democrats (who are supposed to have the black vote in their hip pocket) two times with Bush II as a candidate, why try to reach out?

How else does evangelicals get a presidential forum with Obama and McCain to address their issues and concerns and Black America don't? The numbers at the polls over time speak for them (evangelicals).

Sometimes I think even in the Democratic party our (black) inclusion is getting the redistributed crumbs from the big table that Jesse and Al and some new faces have gotten a seat at. Yeah, they take a stand on patently racist issues... but how often do you see the oppressors suffer any consequences? And most of these oppressors are elected officials who don't lose their positions and are often re-elected during those non-presidential voting years (a time where our votes just seem to be on hiatus).[/b]
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Horse



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I don't buy into either party.

The Democratic Message sounds like a Sunday morning sermon in the hood.
[i]
One day u gon git yours and things will be fair.........
One day someone will come and make Massa share his food with us and his profit.
Now give me the few dollars you have brothers and sisters and I'll fight that fight for you......[/i]


The Republican message is more in line with nature.. You fight to live...and never look for handouts.
If you are not tough enough to make a way for yourself then you are at the mercy of those that can.

I'm a floater because I feel things should be fair for those willing to put in the work.
I don't believe in handouts and begging.....neither do I believe in enslaving people.

I might write my name in on election day...
I'm the change that you will be forced to believe in.....
Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:49 pm View user's profile Find all posts by Horse Send private message
westphilly37



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Post Re: Why I'm Not A Republican Reply with quote
[quote="BobbyDigital"][quote="Omega Phoenix"]Probably the best thing to happen to Black people who support the Democratic Party is the Obama ticket, one of the reasons being that it finally put the "First Black President" mythos surrounding Bill Clinton to bed.[/quote]

[b]Also it seems like his candidacy has raise the level of awareness and interest in politics among black people in general that wasn't there before.[/b]

[quote]From the top down, the Republican view on Black America seems to be that racism is over, and if you're being mistreated because of your race, you're a whiny law-breaker looking to make excuses for your own shortcomings. They may celebrate some Black achievements indirectly (i.e. the appointments of both Colin Powell and Dr. Rice to high-level cabinet positions), but they seem to have no problems reminding us of where "our place is."

It seems to me that if the Black Republicans want more of us under their big tent, then those in prominent positions should make a better effort to see that our inclusion won't just be to get crumbs from the big table. It would also help to see them actually take a stand on some patently racist issues, without blaming people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton for being "troublemakers" for raising these issues.[/quote]

[b]I think the Republican party don't reach out to us in general because we don't consistently excercise our power (voting). In the past two election cycles, I heard stats of the margin of victory for Bush over Gore and Bush over Kerry compared to the number of unregistered black voters in those states. And it was shocking how the number of unregistered black voters was greater than the margin of victory in those swing states.

So... maybe they don't reach out because there isn't a return in their investment at the election booth. I mean, if they can beat the Democrats (who are supposed to have the black vote in their hip pocket) two times with Bush II as a candidate, why try to reach out?

How else does evangelicals get a presidential forum with Obama and McCain to address their issues and concerns and Black America don't? The numbers at the polls over time speak for them (evangelicals).

Sometimes I think even in the Democratic party our (black) inclusion is getting the redistributed crumbs from the big table that Jesse and Al and some new faces have gotten a seat at. Yeah, they take a stand on patently racist issues... but how often do you see the oppressors suffer any consequences? And most of these oppressors are elected officials who don't lose their positions and are often re-elected during those non-presidential voting years (a time where our votes just seem to be on hiatus).[/b][/quote]

Its really disheartening at the local levels. We cry about injustice in the justice system but we don't show up to vote for the DA, judges and sheriffs. Hell Steve Harvey's Hoody Awards gets a better voter turn our from us. Confused
Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:55 pm View user's profile Find all posts by westphilly37 Send private message
faceman68



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Post Re: Why I'm Not A Republican Reply with quote
[quote="westphilly37"][quote="BobbyDigital"][quote="Omega Phoenix"]Probably the best thing to happen to Black people who support the Democratic Party is the Obama ticket, one of the reasons being that it finally put the "First Black President" mythos surrounding Bill Clinton to bed.[/quote]

[b]Also it seems like his candidacy has raise the level of awareness and interest in politics among black people in general that wasn't there before.[/b]

[quote]From the top down, the Republican view on Black America seems to be that racism is over, and if you're being mistreated because of your race, you're a whiny law-breaker looking to make excuses for your own shortcomings. They may celebrate some Black achievements indirectly (i.e. the appointments of both Colin Powell and Dr. Rice to high-level cabinet positions), but they seem to have no problems reminding us of where "our place is."

It seems to me that if the Black Republicans want more of us under their big tent, then those in prominent positions should make a better effort to see that our inclusion won't just be to get crumbs from the big table. It would also help to see them actually take a stand on some patently racist issues, without blaming people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton for being "troublemakers" for raising these issues.[/quote]

[b]I think the Republican party don't reach out to us in general because we don't consistently excercise our power (voting). In the past two election cycles, I heard stats of the margin of victory for Bush over Gore and Bush over Kerry compared to the number of unregistered black voters in those states. And it was shocking how the number of unregistered black voters was greater than the margin of victory in those swing states.

So... maybe they don't reach out because there isn't a return in their investment at the election booth. I mean, if they can beat the Democrats (who are supposed to have the black vote in their hip pocket) two times with Bush II as a candidate, why try to reach out?

How else does evangelicals get a presidential forum with Obama and McCain to address their issues and concerns and Black America don't? The numbers at the polls over time speak for them (evangelicals).

Sometimes I think even in the Democratic party our (black) inclusion is getting the redistributed crumbs from the big table that Jesse and Al and some new faces have gotten a seat at. Yeah, they take a stand on patently racist issues... but how often do you see the oppressors suffer any consequences? And most of these oppressors are elected officials who don't lose their positions and are often re-elected during those non-presidential voting years (a time where our votes just seem to be on hiatus).[/b][/quote]

Its really disheartening at the local levels. We cry about injustice in the justice system but we don't show up to vote for the DA, judges and sheriffs. Hell Steve Harvey's Hoody Awards gets a better voter turn our from us. Confused[/quote]

WestPhilly, I hear what you are saying when it comes to the local elections. Today, my city is holding local elections, and I am not sure that the turnout will be that high. I always wonder if the black community is really engaged in knowing how goverment really works?
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[color=darkred]I never got the impression the Republican Party seemed that interested in the affairs and issues concerning black Americans -- be it on the national, state or local level.[/color]
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[color=darkred]Right now, there is a recall effort on a mayor of an Atlanta suburb who won her election with a total of 76 votes.

Outrageous.[/color]
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Good post Omega. I agree with most of your points. We'll have to disagree on Rice, Powell, and Steele. Rice and Powell sold Iraq (Rice still sells it), and from the times I've seen Steele on national shows, he tows the party line just like all the rest. He's just less abrasive than some of the more rabid apologists.

As far as the GOP being the rich man's party...I think my comment on the other thread was misunderstood. Clearly all Republican's aren't rich. That wasn't even the point. Hell, just look at some of the delegates at the convention last week. Read between the lines. The Repubs are called the rich man's party because their actions benefit the RICH. Joe-sixpack-40k-a-year probably votes (R) against his own interests every election because he allows the Repubs to scare him with the latest round of psy-war. "The colored's are gonna take your job! You'd better vote for the Republican!" The gay's want to get married! It's gonna destroy your marriage! Better vote for the Repub!" "The terrorists are coming! The terrorists are coming! 9-11!!!!! Better vote for the GOP!"

I vote democrat because their platforms are more agreeable to me. Republicans policies may reflect the law of the jungle, but we're supposed to be higher beings, right? Politically, I'm probably even more of a lefty than most Dems. I'm a progressive, and that's why I cannot fuck with the Republican party. They seem to be the absolute antithesis of progress...unless you're part of that elite upper 10 percent .
Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:57 am View user's profile Find all posts by 1brotherman Send private message
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[quote="1brotherman"]Good post Omega. I agree with most of your points. We'll have to disagree on Rice, Powell, and Steele. Rice and Powell sold Iraq (Rice still sells it), and from the times I've seen Steele on national shows, he tows the party line just like all the rest. He's just less abrasive than some of the more rabid apologists.

As far as the GOP being the rich man's party...I think my comment on the other thread was misunderstood. Clearly all Republican's aren't rich. That wasn't even the point. Hell, just look at some of the delegates at the convention last week. Read between the lines. The Repubs are called the rich man's party because their actions benefit the RICH. Joe-sixpack-40k-a-year probably votes (R) against his own interests every election because he allows the Repubs to scare him with the latest round of psy-war. "The colored's are gonna take your job! You'd better vote for the Republican!" The gay's want to get married! It's gonna destroy your marriage! Better vote for the Repub!" "The terrorists are coming! The terrorists are coming! 9-11!!!!! Better vote for the GOP!"

I vote democrat because their platforms are more agreeable to me. Republicans policies may reflect the law of the jungle, but we're supposed to be higher beings, right? Politically, I'm probably even more of a lefty than most Dems. I'm a progressive, and that's why I cannot fuck with the Republican party. They seem to be the absolute antithesis of progress...unless you're part of that elite upper 10 percent .[/quote]

[b]And some will say (playing Devil's Advocate) that the Democratic party promotes a general public dependency on the government. They promise all these "social" programs that often turn out to be more counterproductive than productive and very costly to ALL tax payers.

I mean, look at this Fannie Mae stuff going on now. All this started during the Clinton Administration basically allowing (or expanding) this government funded program to put people into houses they can't afford with various types of bad loans. Sure the intent was to allow more Americans to be home owners... but look how that turned out (especially for those who really had no idea how all this works). So now all these people in trouble or either losing their homes or waiting for the government to bail them out.[/b]
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Fannie/Freddie is an issue. It's costing taxpayers $, but not nearly as much as Iraq...that's a Republican/neocon created problem. In the face of the multi-billion dollar deficit created by the Repubs over these last few years, I think the whole government dependency issue has been greatly exaggerated.
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[quote="1brotherman"]Fannie/Freddie is an issue. It's costing taxpayers $, but not nearly as much as Iraq...that's a Republican/neocon created problem. In the face of the multi-billion dollar deficit created by the Repubs over these last few years, [b]I think the whole government dependency issue has been greatly exaggerated.[/b][/quote]

[b]Really?

(playing devil's advocate again)

How can you say that when you have a party that's basically telling it's base that the government can take care of all their problems like...

Healthcare, the housing crisis, the economy, college expenses, retirement, childcare, taxes, welfare programs, etc...

And not giving that base the knowledge they need to be self-sufficient, independent, and more smart with their earned money but told to let the government handle it.



How can you say that government dependency is greatly exaggerated or won't be an "real" issue?[/b]
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BishopTuTu



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To be fair BD, the same government on the OTHER side has TONS of welfare for CORPORATE AMERICA. How come no outrage from corporations getting tons of government handouts?
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As George Wallace once said there's not a dime bit of difference between the two.Or George Will's assertaion that it depends on which elites you prefer.

I've voted across the board.But I still strive for which is best for me, my family and Black peoples interest.But I think we are all sophisticated enough to know that all pols overpromise.The GOP and the Republican party are two different animals.


Last edited by Bison4Life on Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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faceman68



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[quote="Bison4Life"]As George Wallace once said there's not a dime bit of difference between the two.Or George Will's assertaion that it depends on which elites you prefer.

I've voted across the board.But I still strive for which is best for my and my family and Black peoples interest.But I think we are all sophisticated enough to know that all pols overpromise.The GOP and the Repulican party are two different animals.[/quote]

What is the difference between the GOP and the Republicans?
Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:25 pm View user's profile Find all posts by faceman68 Send private message Send e-mail
MHC



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Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:21 pm View user's profile Find all posts by MHC Send private message
BobbyDigital



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[quote="BishopTuTu"]To be fair BD, the same government on the OTHER side has TONS of welfare for CORPORATE AMERICA. How come no outrage from corporations getting tons of government handouts?[/quote]

[b]There isn't an argument that government corporate handouts/tax breaks have been counterproductive...[/b]
Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:14 pm View user's profile Find all posts by BobbyDigital Send private message Yahoo Messenger
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