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In the words of Dr. Frederick K.C. Price...
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aqil4u



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Post In the words of Dr. Frederick K.C. Price... Reply with quote
[b]Is masturbation a sin, even if you are married? [/b]

"Personally, I think masturbation is wrong, whether you are married or single. The purpose of masturbation is to get a feeling or sensation that God designed to be experienced in the context of a man and a woman in a marriage relationship...

The Bible clearly states that thoughts, imaginations and arguments which are not consistent with God’s word should be put under subjection to the word (2 Cor. 10:5).

The word 'masturbation' is not in the Bible; however, the [i]act [/i]of masturbation is clearly wrong. It constitutes a perversion of the sex act, and is always accompanied by lustful thoughts (Romans 13:14).

If you are married and have to masturbate, you have a serious problem. Because if you and your mate are doing everything you are supposed to be doing, you should not have any time or need to masturbate. If you are masturbating, either you are out of control and totally into lust, or your marital relationship is not what it ought to be. So fix the relationship - that is the bottom line - and stop doing whatever motivates you to masturbate, whether you are a male or a female."

[b]Is oral sex a sin? [/b]

"Yes. Oral sex is not organically normal. It is not a biological necessity, nor is it a genetic predisposition. It is a perversion of the mind.

Hebrews 13:4, which says that marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled, does not provide freedom to indulge in exotic, pornographic acts - even with a mate. Marriage is honorable, but that does not mean you have a license for sexual perversions.

The word ''undefiled' does not mean that you can do some weird thing out of an imagination that has been programmed by Satan, and have it be right simply because you are married. You have to be especially careful in this area because Satan has twisted this verse into one of the cleverest weapons for wrecking marital relationships. I have had a number of people down through the years who have asked about oral sex and used this scripture to try to justify it.

Paul writes in Romans 1:26-27, 'For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.'

These two verses are usually used as foundation scriptures to show why homosexuality is against the things of God. But I want you to notice the word 'natural.' If there is a [i]natural[/i] use of something, then there can also be an [i]unnatural[/i] use of it. And the fact you can use something in an unnatural manner does not automatically make that practice right - especially in the case of our bodies, which are the temples in which the Holy Spirit dwells.

Oral sex is unnatural, and it goes contrary to the anatomical structure of the organs involved. It is strictly a mental aberration. It is satanic, devilish, and downright nasty."

(Dr. Fred Price)

www.faithdome.org/content/faq/pastorialservices/marriage.htm
Sun Jul 28, 2002 1:52 pm View user's profile Find all posts by aqil4u Send private message Send e-mail
Talli



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Post Reply with quote
Hmmm, not ot discount Fred Price's opinion but he has no more insight than the Apostle AR Williams since the bible is silent on the subject. One is to be and should be led by the Holy Ghost since the bible is silent.
Sun Jul 28, 2002 2:21 pm View user's profile Find all posts by Talli Send private message
aqil4u



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Post Reply with quote
Dr. Price is a recognized Biblical scholar and esteemed theologian, and, imo, one of the best TV evangelists in the country. He quotes scripture in his discourse...
Sun Jul 28, 2002 7:36 pm View user's profile Find all posts by aqil4u Send private message Send e-mail
DaSmoov1



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Post Ahem... Reply with quote
I don't follow much of Dr. Price's theology because it is way off IMHO.

The Bible is silent on those two issues, but people have tried to "twist" scripture to fit their points of view from sex to slavery, so I encourage everyone to study their Bibles and seek God personally.

Where the Bible is silent, so should we be.

In Christ~ Cool
Sun Jul 28, 2002 8:57 pm View user's profile Find all posts by DaSmoov1 Send private message ICQ Number
aqil4u



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Post Reply with quote
What scripture did Dr. Price "twist"? And how did he "twist" them?
Sun Jul 28, 2002 9:23 pm View user's profile Find all posts by aqil4u Send private message Send e-mail
DaSmoov1



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Post Dr. Price Reply with quote
Well first of, I used to be a fan of Dr. Price and I have a few of his books. But, when I started studying the Bible for myself, I seen many contradictions in his theology and that of scripture.

Dr. Price studies and teaches much of Ken Hagin's theology which is more Charismatic nowadays than anything. You know the "Name it and Claim it", "Blab it and Grab it" doctrines. I just don't believe they are biblical.

Dr. Price teaches that Adam "gave" the Garden of Eden away to Satan which is nowhere in scripture. False teaching in my opinion.

Dr. Price teaches that Satan has total dominion over the Earth and that God has to get permission to intercede which is false doctrine in my opinion.

Dr. Price is also a heavy promoter of the "Rich Jesus" doctrine that has many people scuffling for pennies now trying to look righteous.

Dr. Price also teaches in his books about Jesus in Hell doing work which is against scripture. Teaching that Jesus's soul and spirit went to Hell is flat out heretical. This is also deadly teaching because it twists scripture.

Lastly, Dr. Price teaches the deadly "faith teaching" that has elderly people stopping their medications while "claiming healing". "Heal it and feel it" or whatever they call it is a deadly teaching. I'm sure many people worldwide that have heard of the parents who took their child off of insulin because they "claimed a healing on the boy". Eventually, the boy died.

Now if you follow Dr. Price, thats cool for you, but I think his theology is troubling. I know someone who has met him personally and says he is a very nice man. All I know is from what I read of his books and see on the television. His book "Race, Religion, and Racism" is outstanding, but I have to cast him aside in the "theology department".

Be Blessed~ Cool
Sun Jul 28, 2002 10:09 pm View user's profile Find all posts by DaSmoov1 Send private message ICQ Number
aqil4u



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Post Reply with quote
So are you saying that on the basis of YOUR interpretations and disagreements of Dr. Price's teachings, that it stands to reason his teachings on the subjects of this thread are false?
Sun Jul 28, 2002 10:21 pm View user's profile Find all posts by aqil4u Send private message Send e-mail
Raisin_Hell



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Post Reply with quote
These are Dr. Price's teachings not God's. You admitted yourself Aqil that God makes no refrences in the Bible bout such acts yet you want us to follow what a man (Dr.Price) feels on the subject? You say there nasty and wrong, but what does God say? And if he made no refrence to them in scriptures then why should we feel its wrong? Because Dr.Price said you say so? If a person cant find ANY scriptures to validate these findings then how can one deem them wrong in the eyes of God when God has made no refrences to these acts? You brought forth a few scriptures but none of the scriptures answer the question about the acts being wrong in Gods sight.
Sun Jul 28, 2002 10:55 pm View user's profile Find all posts by Raisin_Hell Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger ICQ Number
aqil4u



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In a book called [i]The Essene Gospel of Peace[/i], Jesus admonishes us to:

[b]“Seek not the law in your scriptures, for the law is life, whereas the scriptures is dead[/b]. For I tell you truly, Moses received not his laws in writing, but through the living word. The law is the living word of the living God to living prophets for living men.

[b]In everything that is life the law is written. [/b]You find it in the grass, in the trees, in the rivers, in the mountains, in the birds of heaven, in the fish of the sea; [b]but seek it chiefly in yourselves[/b]. For I tell you truly, [b] all living things are nearer to God than the scripture – which is without life. God so-made life and all living things that they might – by the ever-living word – teach the laws of the one true God to man. God wrote not the laws in the pages of books, but in your heart and in your spirit.” [/b]


Last edited by aqil4u on Tue Jul 30, 2002 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Sun Jul 28, 2002 11:14 pm View user's profile Find all posts by aqil4u Send private message Send e-mail
Raisin_Hell



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Post Re: In the words of Dr. Frederick K.C. Price... Reply with quote
[quote="aqil4u"]The Bible clearly states that thoughts, imaginations and arguments which are not consistent with God’s word should be put under subjection to the word (2 Cor. 10:5). [/quote]

But this scripture doesnt say what sexual acts are not consistent with God's word. God doesnt clearly state that these practices are in question.

[quote]The word 'masturbation' is not in the Bible; however, the [i]act [/i]of masturbation is clearly wrong. It constitutes a perversion of the sex act, and is always accompanied by lustful thoughts (Romans 13:14).[/quote]
But who said it constitutes a perversion of the sex act? Its evident there's no scriptures sayin such a thing.


[quote]"Yes. Oral sex is not organically normal. It is not a biological necessity, nor is it a genetic predisposition. It is a perversion of the mind. [/quote]
Again, this is your interpretation not God. There is STILL no scriptures that you can find to say this is a known fact.

[quote]Hebrews 13:4, which says that marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled, does not provide freedom to indulge in exotic, pornographic acts - even with a mate. Marriage is honorable, but that does not mean you have a license for sexual perversions.[/quote]

AGain, there is no scriptures stating that these acts are perversions.

[quote]Paul writes in Romans 1:26-27, 'For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.' [/quote]

AGain, I'm still waitin on the word comin from God's own mouth that these are perversions. Which is still not proven.

[quote]Oral sex is unnatural, and it goes contrary to the anatomical structure of the organs involved. It is strictly a mental aberration. It is satanic, devilish, and downright nasty."[/quote]

Where is the scriptures sayin that God said it was wrong and nasty?

This is what Fred is sayin and he aint even near close to being God.

I cant believe all this writing and NOBODY can find it in the Bible that Masterbation is a sin. Scripture after Scripture can be proven about everything else but not one person can find a scripture sayin God said, its immorally wrong to masterbate. Aqil I read every last scripture you post, but its obvious you have no proof in the Bible where masterbation is wrong. All the scriptures you give dance around the fact, and you interpret it being what you want it to be because YOU feel the act is nasty and inhuman. yall can find scriptures ALL DAY LONG about homosexuality being a sin, adultery being a sin. Yall can through scriptures like frisbee's to the fornicators, murders and all that. But NOT ONCE has anyone found a scripture pertaining to the alleged perversion of masterbation. You can only give your opinion on how you feel. You can only state what YOU THINK God feels. But in all reality its COMMON KNOWLEGE that God has made NO REFRENCE to masterbation being wrong.
Sun Jul 28, 2002 11:14 pm View user's profile Find all posts by Raisin_Hell Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger ICQ Number
Raisin_Hell



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Post Reply with quote
[quote="aqil4u"]In a book called [i]The Essene Gospel of Peace[/i], [/quote]

Stop right there Aqil. This is a BOOK, not the Bible. Surely you're not implyin that we should go to an outside book other then the Bible. Who wrote this book, any prophets, appostles? and judging by your refrences in the book, this book doesnt say anything about masterbation either. So now you're sayin that Jesus said [quote][b] seek not the law in in scriptures[/b][/quote] well if it aint in the scripture where is it? And if the scriptures are dead why are YOU still postin them? Why is anybody? So now we shouldnt listen to the scriptures because they dont make refrence to these sins but we can listen to the scripture regarding other sins? If that aint contradiction I dont know what is.
Sun Jul 28, 2002 11:20 pm View user's profile Find all posts by Raisin_Hell Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger ICQ Number
aqil4u



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Post Reply with quote
The word "masturbate" is Latin on origin, Raisin_Hell...and the Latin language did not exist in Biblical times...
Sun Jul 28, 2002 11:26 pm View user's profile Find all posts by aqil4u Send private message Send e-mail
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Post Reply with quote
This is why I usually stay away from religious discussions. When things go bad, they usually turn into "questions and logic" versus "undying faith". Those that logically break down the Bible and generate questions about contradictions always butt heads with those that don't see (or don't want to see) the contradictions, because "you can't let the devil sway your faith..." Since I am always on the side of "logic and questions" I usually end up being ostracized.
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Talli



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Post Reply with quote
I tried listening to Dr Price but it was hard, just couldn't follow him. Then one night I forced myself to listen to him and he quoted a scripture and gave his interpretation....I went to my bible because it didn't sit well with my spirit and he quoted it wrong and his interpretation was way off.

Since then, I turn the channel when he comes on...that one experience was enough for me. That's why it's important to study the word for yourself versus waiting on someone to do it for you.
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Raisin_Hell



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Post Reply with quote
[quote="aqil4u"]In a book called [i]The Essene Gospel of Peace[/i], Jesus admonishes us to:

[b]“Seek not the law in your scriptures, for the law is life, whereas the scriptures is dead[/b][/quote]
So why are we even readin the bible and quotin scriptures? And who did Jesus say this too?

[quote]all living things are nearer to God than the scripture – which is without life.[/quote]
So what is the point of readin the bible then?

[quote]God so-made life and all living things that they might – by the ever-living word – teach the laws of the one true God to man.[/quote]

I thought thats what the bible was spose to do is teach us God's law?

Well judging by all of this I might as well put my Bible in a box cause this clearly states that the Bible doesnt hold the true meaning to Gods word. And Aqil how can you read this book and yet quote scriptures at the same time when this book clearly states that "seek not the law in your scriptures, where as the scriptures are dead"? If the scriptures are dead, then why quote them if their obviously irrelevant based on this book?
Sun Jul 28, 2002 11:59 pm View user's profile Find all posts by Raisin_Hell Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger ICQ Number
DaSmoov1



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Post Hi.. Reply with quote
[quote="aqil4u"]So are you saying that on the basis of YOUR interpretations and disagreements of Dr. Price's teachings, that it stands to reason his teachings on the subjects of this thread are false?[/quote]

Actually, I have seen this type of thread go from Annapolis to Africa, so I am pretty familiar with the headz who post scripture pro and con. I don't agree with Dr. Price's theology so I would be more cautious when reading things from him. As far as the topic article, Raisin_Hell had the correct summation as this is Dr. Price's "interpretation" of scripture. I have read John Hagee present the same topic in favor of masterbation and oral sex. (He had many scriptures to support his statement as well.) So in essence, who is correct ?

This is why you have to seek scripture for yourself and let the Holy Spirit minister to you and not be dependent on individuals. God will give you the correct answer if you seek Him on it.

In Christ~ Cool
Mon Jul 29, 2002 12:00 am View user's profile Find all posts by DaSmoov1 Send private message ICQ Number
cymric



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[img]http://www.plauder-smilies.de/lach.gif[/img]

[size=14][b]?[/b]

[/size]


Last edited by cymric on Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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Talli



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[quote="Raisin_Hell"][quote="aqil4u"]In a book called [i]The Essene Gospel of Peace[/i], [/quote]

Stop right there Aqil. This is a BOOK, not the Bible. Surely you're not implyin that we should go to an outside book other then the Bible. Who wrote this book, any prophets, appostles? and judging by your refrences in the book, this book doesnt say anything about masterbation either. So now you're sayin that Jesus said [quote][b] seek not the law in in scriptures[/b][/quote] well if it aint in the scripture where is it? And if the scriptures are dead why are YOU still postin them? Why is anybody? So now we shouldnt listen to the scriptures because they dont make refrence to these sins but we can listen to the scripture regarding other sins? If that aint contradiction I dont know what is.[/quote]

I agree with Raisin...there is only one holy book, that which is inspired by God and called the Holy Bible.

Scripture is hardly dead, it is alive and nourishment to the soul.
Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:22 am View user's profile Find all posts by Talli Send private message
aqil4u



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[quote="Raisin_Hell"]Well, judging by all of this I might as well put my Bible in a box because this clearly states that the Bible doesn't hold the true meaning of God's word. And Aqil, how can you read this book and yet quote scriptures at the same time when this book clearly states that "seek not the law in your scriptures, whereas the scriptures are dead"? If the scriptures are dead, then why quote them if their obviously irrelevant based on this book?[/quote]

It says, "seek not THE LAW in your scriptures"...for the law is life, and the true laws of God are written in your heart and your spirit..." I'm talking about laws that existed before man could read...It is through the scriptures (which were written, translated and interpreted by man) that the masses are taught...

Before there was a Bible there was God's word - His creation...The Universe...the Kingdom of God...this particular solar system, which consists of the Sun, the Moon, and the nine planets (including Earth) that revolve around the Sun...This is truly God's Word...


Last edited by aqil4u on Mon Jul 29, 2002 2:41 am; edited 1 time in total
Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:52 am View user's profile Find all posts by aqil4u Send private message Send e-mail
Raisin_Hell



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Post Reply with quote
[quote="aqil4u"]
Before there was a Bible there was God's word - His creation...The Universe...the Kingdom of God...this particular solar system, which consists of the Sun, the Moon, and the nine planets (including Earth) that revolve around the Sun...This is truly God's Word...[/quote]

And what does that have to do with Masterbation and Oral sex? There's no way to prove what God's word was on these subjects BEFORE the Bible was written if it were not documented. So therefore we STILL dont know his views on these matters.
Mon Jul 29, 2002 2:30 am View user's profile Find all posts by Raisin_Hell Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger ICQ Number
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